Imvho. :)
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Imvho. :)
It was obvious that palin would win, i just wish she'd wipe that fucking smug women attitude off.
Palin automatically loses for question dodging. GG.
This, plus did any of you watch the katie couric interview? Fuck that noise. Obama 08. I don't see how anyone can take McCain seriously after him choosing Palin as VP. Completely contradicts all of his statements in regards to Obama not being experienced enough. I wish he'd shove his country first and straight talk express shit down his throat and die - seriously, save us the ache of Palin being Pres when he delays the inevitable and croaks while he's in office.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadly
FYI, I haven't seen the debate but I've seen interviews and that's all that bitch does is question dodge shit. No real answers or solutions whatsoever -- Andrew am I to assume this is exactly what she did throughout the entire debate too?
And Biden doesn't dance around questions as well? If you're going to point fingers, he's the first to point at from what I saw.
Aborting your child fathered your by rapist father should be illegal IMO.
agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShockWave
PALIN FOR PRESIDENT!
Not only did Palin dodge about 10 times more questions than Biden, but it was like she was reading from a script half of the fucking time too. As far as I could tell not only in this debate but in every public appearance she has made she really has no real public speaking ability.
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/10/03/palin-can-read/
You're fucking shitting me right? Out of an hour and 30 minutes, you can only find 2 minutes of her looking down like she's reading? I'm rewatching the whole debate and she's DEFINITELY speaking straight from herself and not off a paper. It's actually Biden that I see constantly looking down at his feet. Don't bring up bullshit points friend when they're false.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadly
Can you give me the link to the whole debate?Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaGator
There was a HUGE fucking difference. Biden looked down at his notes and Palin looked down at her pre-scripted statements, hence why she had to dodge questions so she could use her scripted response.
This little bullshit thread doesn't matter anyway, what really matters is everyone else agrees Biden won the debate.
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If there's one thing I truly agree with either side of this election is how the right side is so obviously doing the right thing for making our country energy independent. It's also fucking ignorant to just say that our climate is changing due to strictly manmade causes. The planet undergoes it's own changes, I see it as it being natural but the things we put into the air are not helping in anyway. It's also necessary for us to keep these methods though so we can still be a productive country, but there's always alternatives to how we can do things.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89FbCPzAsRA For you Mr. Cody.
I'll take back Biden constantly looking down while talking, but Palin definitely doesn't do it as much as him.
Glad you're only looking at a left station's results. Fox had a 12% Biden 88% Palin. ALSO, somewhere here in Missouri, they gathered a number of undecided people (Around 50 I'm pretty sure) half that had voted for Bush last election, other half for Kerry to watch the debate. There was also a close to average number of women and men, and blacks, whites and mexicans to view it. At the end, everyone but two people agreed that Palin had won the debate because they easily saw that she's for the people over anything, which I agree with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadly
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1. This is scripted, like much of Palin's debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaGator
2. Fox news is horseshit.
3. Cindy McCain is chairman of Hensley and Co., one of the largest distributors of Anheuser-Busch products (the sponsor of that poll).
All news stations are horseshit since they are fucking biased and lean towards their side. In all truth, I don't trust any, I'm going by what I hear from the candidates and not what the news stations have to say. Most liberals are only liberal because they fucking listen to the media and don't do anything themselves. It's that laziness that could potentially ruin the country.
This is why I can't stand listening to fucking children debate politics. Most people your age talk out of your ass and pretend you really do know what you're talking about - until you have to provide some sort of proof. I guess I can't really blame you, I probably did it a bit myself at your age...but then again, the idea that Bush was a terrible President and shouldn't have been re-elected didn't seem like a very debatable thing at the time - although, if you followed the 4D threads on it, it was a hotly-debated subject...even though today MOST sane people with half a brain realize he's a terrible President.Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaGator
That entire liberal quote was just plain fucking retarded, and I don't mind calling you out for it. I can't stand liberals much more than I can stand conservatives..but the fact that you even pretend to know why "most" liberals are in fact liberal takes away any credibility you had for that opinion of yours. Not only that, but your reasoning is even more retarded. At least if you said "most liberals are in fact liberal because they don't understand advanced economics", it would have been something worthy of debating. Instead, you just look like an idiot...especially when that kind of idea (from my perspective) seems to be much more rampant with conservatives. There are lots of people who call themselves conservatives who seem to vote out of fear, gullibility, and just plain ignorance (not so ironically, this includes a lot of religious people). Why do you think Palin tried to imply that we're all going to lose our freedom if we don't vote for her and McCain? It's their golden ticket in regards to their constituents - they eat that shit up, nevermind looking it up. Tons of conservatives merely repeat what Fox news says rather than looking things up and being informed. This is why Bill O'Reilly is a faggot, too. The guy just yells hyperbole and name calling at anybody who disagrees with him. He's not an analyst, just an asshole.
Here's my take. The fact that Palin did much better than most people expected of her is a win...for her. That does not, however, mean she wins the debate. I'd really just call it a draw. They both did their jobs. His whole job was to defend Obama when she opened her trap - and NOT fuck the debate away with any big mistakes. Success. She needed to look like she can stand next to him and not get completely blown out of the water by actually answering questions that she doesn't have much of a clue about (one way to do this was diverting questions). She did a great job at it. I think Deadly made a good point with the "scripting" thing - she basically memorized a series of talking points and uses them whenever she's asked about them or does not know how to answer another question. It's the best way to divert the fact that she doesn't know better (at least yet). The alternative would be to try to answer something she doesn't know about, which is political suicide. However, in my perspective, although many people (apparently you're included, Ninja?) will only latch onto the illusion that she stood strong and wasn't made a fool of by Biden (she did try to bait him into attacking her, but he was smarter than that) I'm more concerned that she's basically the "stepford" VP. She didn't answer many questions with direct answers and the rhetorical pre-canned memorized statements didn't hold much substance. That concerns me more than ever, because as Cody said - McCain IS going to die in office (he's in terrible shape, already being the oldest candidate ever) and she WOULD be President. That holds much more possibility of "ruining the country" (as you were pointing out, Ninja) than anything. Even then, we're a country of checks and balances - so I would hope that her ineptness (nevermind the fact that she'd be a puppet of her party, rather than standing on her own) as President would be countered by sound government.
So did Palin win? Sure, I suppose if you like your intelligence to be insulted by pre-canned talking points at every turn...or just don't realize it. Did Biden win? You could probably make a better case for it, but I still would be more inclined to say it was a tie. That's really all you can expect from a Vice Presidential debate though, otherwise we'd have more than 1 every election.
Hey ninja, thanks for posting a Fox news video. They're about as far right as your can go, Bill O'Reilly? Hannity & Colmes? I'm sure you've heard of them: the most conservative pundits on the air these days. I am watching the debate now, about 3/4 through, and all I can say is Palin isn't winning shit. Nationwide, Obama is shifting to higher #s in the polls which is something to be said. If only americans weren't so gullible as to believe white lies and flat out contradictions as put forth by the McCain and Palin duo. Your accusations liberals being lazy because they listen to the media are baseless and have no meaning, it's like your trying to blame the current/potential downfall of the country on one political party.
Pertaining to the debate; I paid attention to both body language and facial expressions (being able to read people is a vital trait) throughout the entire debate. Biden always expressed his answers with confidence, honesty, and sternness. Palin on the otherhand, looked like a mental mess. She didn't look confident in the least, and paid much more attention to the scripting of her responses . As I told didlz in an MSN convo,
Cody -- says:
biden is talking and
Cody -- says:
palin is looking down
Cody -- says:
like
Cody -- says:
"oh shit what answer do i read off"
Andrew -- says:
LOL
Which is exactly what it looked like.
I'd like to point out that Palin performed complete question alterations -- and often never supplying answers to the original questions given. Biden not once - NOT ONCE - did this. He would of course touch back on a previous point(s), but he always got back on topic with the current question and gave a answer to some extent. As I pointed out in our conversation as well, Palin had many emotionally charged responses. Biden provided more actual solutions while Palin danced around questions and went off the beaten path like an obnoxious child curious if that snake is poisonous and bites. She acted rather snide in her responses and overall attitude. Sometimes Biden would counter it with a little verbal jolt here and there which is understandable.
They both gave answers trying to appeal the american voters, while Biden went one step further: he actually proposed answers to the hosts questions.
Basic summary: Palin can't "straight talk" shit.
Moving away from the debate, have any of you not paid any attention to the real politics happening here?
McCain accused Obama of not having enough experience, and then arrogantly (and ignorantly) selects Sarah Palin as his VP. A woman who was on the city council -> mayor -> and then governor for 2 or 3 years. This woman contains less experience than a tenth of Obama's career. Obama may be young, but that is by far not a downfall. He has been a teacher, a church organizer, maintained a seat in the senate for five consecutive terms, and more. But above all, he is intelligent. In my opinion, intelligence and understanding is ranked far higher than experience - and when coupled together into a package like him though, it is grandiose.
In the past two years, McCain has destroyed all of what he previously stood for - all that made him the "maverick" he claims to be, in attempt to grab the conservative base vote. He's made statements weeks apart that contradict each other. One of my favorite Palin quotes from the debate was "One thing really great about running with McCain is that he doesn't tell one thing to one group and turn around and tell another thing to another group." If you can't see the sheer irony in this statement then there's no hope for the logical thought process component of your brain to ever revive itself.
I'm going to end this post with a bang: If you believe that McCain wants to be the American President for any reason other than his legacy, you are farther right than Rupert Murdoch's limp shriveled dick.
EDIT: +1 for Dave's post.
Not to worry, Cody; Big John is going to "maverick" the woman's right movement by ensuring a woman finally becomes President (although, not directly elected - you know, to "maverick" the sexism that could get in the way)...and even beyond the grave, "maverick" Bush's as-of-yet completely failed legacy. The guy is amazing, God bless him!!!!11
Well goddamnit I'd love to rant on for at least 4 paragraphs myself but you cocksuckers took all of the good points of discussion.
As far as experience goes though, basically all I've got to say here is I'll take Obama's 10 years in the senate, his basic understanding and intelligence, and his great public speaking skills and Biden's 35 years senate / foreign affairs experience over McCain's 20 years in the house and senate and Palin's ... two years as governor. Congrats Palin, you've got even less experience than Arnold Schwarzenegger, a goddamn action hero turned politician.
One good point to counter anyone who says Obama lacks experience though, is the fact that he has made it this far with such experience. It is obvious Obama isn't lacking in experience, or how do you become a presidential candidate? It is up to the President though to chose the VP, and it was just pure ignorance for McCain to pick such an underqualified person to do the job. Obama on the other hand picks a guy with 35 years in the senate, including two terms as the Chairman of the Senate Committee on Foreign Affairs, which is key during this "crucial time of world development" (MOP).
You know, everyone really knows why McCain chose Palin. Actually, there are a few reasons. He needs a woman VP to win over those Hilary Clinton votes, he wants a woman VP to win over those undecided conservatives, and he needs a woman VP to further add to his "legacy". This is all fine as far as I'm concerned, valid IMO, but there are so many better options out there than goddamn Palin. I guess he realizes our energy concerns are going to be a huge deal, and assumed Palin would have some expertise in that area, but goddamn was he wrong.
If McCain wants a woman, then why didn't he chose someone who isn't a moron, such as Barbara Boxer? She was in the House of Representatives for 10 years, in the Senate for another 10 years, and then served on the Senate Committe for Environment and Public Works. FFS, she has more experience than McCain himself. Or what about Blanche Lincoln, who also has 10 years house experience and almost 10 years senate experience. Or maybe even Barbara Mikulski, with 10 years in the house and over 20 years in the senate. Well, let me tell you why McCain can't chose any of these experienced women .. they are all democrats (read: not morons).
With that said, It makes me wonder how Palin could sway any female to vote for McCain. It's pretty clear that the intelligent females are voting for Obama (polls have already suggested this), and the intelligent females in politics are democrats. Maybe Palin is the best qualified Republican McCain could find, I don't know, but she's definitely doing a lot more harm to McCain than good.
My liberal quote was quite extended. It's meant for anyone that goes directly by what they hear from a second party source and not direct. Basically, that fits with both liberals AND conservatives that just sit down at the tv and eat up what they're watching. So in all honesty, it's anyone that speaks untruthful garbage that irks me. My apologies for being ignorant and vague about it.
But don't start shoving words in my mouth that have not been spoken. If one thing's for god damn sure, I'm still undecided because both parties have and do things I just don't like. I stated a problem that I did think was the right way to approach, which just so happens to be from her mouth. I can list many things that sound good from Biden's mouth too. From how I was expecting her to go into this debate compared to Biden, I just believed she did much better than what was expected. I expected Biden to defend Obama to his fullest and answer the questions effectively and thoroughly; his experience in the field grants him this. I guess you can say I was astonished by her delivery much more than his, so I see it a win in that situation. A tie overall is definitely reasonable since I really feel not much different about who's side to be on, I now have a better taste of what can be expected.
I don't know how experience was brought up, I never mentioned it (hence people putting words in my mouth again.) This part is so obvious, I really don't see why it's continually brought up. It's like beating a dead horse and a waste of your time to keep mentioning it. We all know who's been where for how long now, I don't see experience being the only factor to this election. I also don't trust any news stations with information since it will always be twisted and inaccurate. I knew linking anything was a bad choice, but just so happen I walked up the stairs to see my dad watching it and telling me, "This just proves everything." which I also believed was a twisted event.
I definitely know Bill O'Reilly and Hannity, many mornings I would have to listen to them spew shit through my dad's radio. I'll say it again, I don't believe shit from news stations nor anyone on them. Stop pretending I'm right-sided when I supported one thing Palin proclaimed. I really just made a mistake by singling out liberals in such a fashion when conservatives do the exact thing (which I can tell made Dave very angriez :P)
Again on the debate, people perceive things differently. There are things you saw that I didn't and vice versa. We're not all going to take everything in the same, thus having different opinions about what we saw and the body language given. To me, an undecided person, it sounded more like she was being more empathetic to a middle class individual. She wouldn't exactly give me anything to rely on though (besides the energy independence which I'm really for) when Biden on the other hand would give his word to his and Obama's proclamations which is quite respectable imo. You guys can't help but be biased on what you see since you're decisions are already done, don't you think that affects how you perceive the opposite party's speeches and everything? I take them in for things that I like and dislike and attempt to filter out what might be lies or promises that can't be kept so I can bring that all to the table in a month when I vote.
Thanks for continually repeating "all news corporations lie!" I'm sure none of us who posted already didn't know this information. Experience was brought up, because with your assumption at the beginning of this thread (palin wins) definitely sounded like you were supporting right wing. As Dave said, I Biden did his job of defending obama and not falling for any traps Palin set for any sort of condescending remarks.Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaGator
If you didn't want anyone to "pretend" that you were right-sided, maybe you should have listed some bulletpoints on pro's and con's that both candidates gave, instead of a one-sided post. The only thing to me that sounded right out of Palin's mouth was energy dependence, but that is the most obvious solution to give at this point in time. She didn't supply anything further, such as mentioning harnessing solar and wind power, or how she believes we'll actually become energy dependant.Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaGator
Yeah that's exactly what I said. She emphasized on emotionally charged responses, aimed at guiding the middle-class population towards the right. Instead of supplying though-out and logical answers, she catered to a fragile audience's emotions, telling them what they wanted to hear.Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaGator
We can't help but be biased because we have actually done some thorough research on both party's candidates. We know what Palin has done, we've seen her perform awfully in interviews where she wasn't told what to say. She acts merely as a puppet for her party, and if she were to become president, that is all she would be - a puppet to republicans and lobbyists. To throw this in here, there is a direct correlation between the average IQs statewide and which candidate wins that state. Hint: Red = Dumber, Blue = Smarter.Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaGator
This country is attempting a fatal attraction with ignorance. Conservative fear-mongering has a stranglehold on our nation, which is why people like your parents and my own dad believe the lies fox news puts forth, as well as McCain political ads that smear Obama's initiative and smother anyone they can with subtle and blunt democratic slander. IMO we've been in civil political war since bush got elected. If another republican gets into the office things can only get worse. (That sentence would be fearmongering if I didn't supply facts, luckily I gave them in previous posts, and Biden gave them during the debate.)
I hope you are as smart as you think you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaGator
Thanks for rectifying everything Dave, Andrew and I said.
I only mentioned the energy dependence since it was really the only thing that influenced my idea of who to vote for. Everything else I had a general idea where they stood.
That Katie Couric interview was very edited, so they obviously put in everything she'd have a problem with and threw out whatever she was strong with responding.
My parents are so obviously afraid of Obama making the country socialist and my dad is constantly spouting off how much Obama is a friend to terrorists and all that. The majority of what I hear is the bads to each candidate and barely any goods. Although recently, I'm seeing no change coming from McCain/Palin in the future. Biden pretty much hit the nail on the head by saying that McCain's plans are not any different from Bush's.
Part of why McCain's camp chose Palin (she was not his pick) was because she's extremely conservative and would help balance the ticket as far as McCain being moderate (although recently he's spouted off a lot of bullshit to appease the right in the last year) and she's extremely conservative in her religious views, bringing the religious right back in the fold (who previously said they didn't want to vote for McCain). Being female and young helps to balance his old white ass...but they've definitely tried to use that to get women voting for her now that Clinton is out (seems pretty retarded to me though).
Anyways Ninja, that "Obama is a friend of the terrorist" quote made me chuckle pretty good. I can't stand when people actually say that - you know there's no way they really believe that (otherwise they are completely and utterly retarded and shouldn't be voting) but instead are just upset that Obama is doing so well and shit out a bunch of hyperbole in frustration.
It does make me chuckle on the inside when he starts going on his bullshit conversations. If I actually let myself laugh, I'd get reamed with a huge rant where he tries to make me look like an idiot and go on for probably 20 minutes about his views etc. It's a very annoying thing to sit through; Didlz knows how my dad can get so he could vouch for that shit.
Politics are fucking crazy.
Check this article out: http://leishacamden.blogspot.com/200...t-matters.html
SNL VP Debate Skit
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once again i must be a dick and ask, who do you think YOU are to shove aside millions of hours of hard work by thousands of scientists and in its place simply substitute whatever idea suits your beliefs best? Is ninjagatorz opinion more important than the collective thought and ideas of thousands of scientists?Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaGator
Am I trying to convince anyone? No. I'm stating how I feel dumbass. I'm not proving anything, just how I see it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saman