Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed

[Saman]

ANYWAYS - I would agree that science and religion do not mix because religion is stifling and non-accepting of differing theories...but I disagree that God (spirituality) and the laws of nature don't mix.

You and what degree

[Spyder]

I suppose I can ask the same thing of you. You're just a college kid - you regurgitate what your teachers and books tell you to. That doesn't make you somebody that should be telling people what to think. It just makes you a follower. You seem to do this kind of stuff - you learn something new at school, and then you come here to show it off like you're some smart stud. Kind of retarded and childish IMO.

Furthermore, if that's truly going to be your argument - only those with a degree in religion and a degree in science can come to conclusions on the subject.

Plus, how many degrees did Darwin have? How about Jesus Christ? Mohammad? Da Vinci?

GG, thanks for playing


Those who are truly successful in their fields are not those who run to a book every time they encounter a problem. IMO there are 3 types of people in this kind of stuff - ones that think on their own and educate themselves (an active self-motivating seeker of knowledge), ones that set up shop in any given field by memorizing books and lectures but have no real ideas of their own (most doctors IMO), and those that just rely on everyone else to come up with something that makes some sort of sense to them and they just go along with it (like lazy religious people). You seem to fall into category number two - but then again, most college kids do too (I say most because there are some who have their own brains and don't run for their text books every time someone wants their opinion - DS would be a good example of this).

If everybody needed a degree in order to formulate opinions we'd be a society of sheep broken in by those who write the text books...no better off than clergy trapped by the confinements of their religious texts.

[DarkSpoon]

i see college as a way of learning from other peoples mistakes instead of doing it all myself and wasting time. that being said 90% of college is doing things on your own and learning your own way. college is used to show future employers that you can learn and you can teach yourself. im not going to hold it against someone if they dont go but i get kinda annoyed when people, like spyder, basically say college is for idiots. it's not it is a very valuable tool. i dont see how people can knock if they havent even tried it. yeah it sucks at times and is complete bs but it makes you a better person on all levels. that being said i think too many people go to college just because its "what you supposed to do."

and the argument about people just doing what textbooks tell them is pretty bs imo. have you read a text book? its a bunch of FACTS. they dont tell you what to believe, they tell you what's true(or at least what is thought to be true).

[Spyder]

I know you're going to get all mad about this...

yeah it sucks at times and is complete bs but it makes you a better person on all levels.

Drunken parties sure makes for well-rounded ambitious individuals in the workplace! jahlolol.

Sure college shows employers that you can learn things and actually stick to something for long enough to get your [very expensive] piece of paper - but I'd rather actually work and have that speak for me. I honestly feel solid work experience is much more convincing than little to no work experience along with a degree. They just don't go as far as they did 20 years ago.

I do think college is excellent for learning when you are really there to learn - not just be there because it's what is expected and you're only really in college because you want to party. I go to classes when I want to learn something...that's the value of it, not a piece of paper. It's not surprising that smaller colleges and tech schools are out-pacing the major colleges because they're able to be more nimble and change with the times (especially in tech courses).

Most people going to college have NO idea what they want to do in life. How is college really valuable if you're like that, you know? I know speaking for myself, I always found value in learning things that pertained to what I wanted to do in life...if you don't know yet, you're just trying to get through school rather than really equip yourself with knowledge.

You may have told me already...but what do you want to do?

EDIT:

have you read a text book? its a bunch of FACTS. they dont tell you what to believe, they tell you what's true(or at least what is thought to be true).

I'm assuming that's a redundant question...

My point was that most people don't question what is in a book. That becomes the end-all rather than people acknowledging that it could be false and that they should keep an open mind to what may change - similarly to how most people know that Wikipedia has a lot of information but always know that things may not be completely factual. Just because the same information is actually PRINTED and shipped out to schools doesn't make it any more true (I would hope that those making textbooks research better than many on wikis). Lots of revisioned books fix things that were wrong...but for some reason lots of people look to it as the end-all similarly to how people think the Bible is 100% factual just because it's been around for thousands of years.

[Saman]

I suppose I can ask the same thing of you. You're just a college kid - you regurgitate what your teachers and books tell you to. That doesn't make you somebody that should be telling people what to think. It just makes you a follower. You seem to do this kind of stuff - you learn something new at school, and then you come here to show it off like you're some smart stud. Kind of retarded and childish IMO.

Right off the back, our teachers don't touch on subjects like these. My sort of thinking is one that is shared in the scientific community. It is what MAKES the scientific community WORK.

Furthermore, if that's truly going to be your argument - only those with a degree in religion and a degree in science can come to conclusions on the subject.

I guess you don't have to have a degree in something to show that you understand it, but its a very good indication. This is more today than it was in the past. And note here, im taking about science, not philosphy or any thing of that nature.

but I disagree that God (spirituality) and the laws of nature don't mix.

If this was simply a personal belief of yours i would not have bothered to point it out, however you, and people of your ilk, are trying to spread this "knowledge" in our school systems. The problem arises when Intelligent design aficionados lack the knowledge to comprehend these very "laws of nature".
how can you say something is in alliance with something else when you don't even understand that first something ?

Imagine this, Person A, who has never played football comes up to person B, who happens to have played football all his life and says "I think football has all the same rules that golf has." Now imagine person A going to gym class, and through bureaucracy forcing that this "statement" be thought in schools.


If you are going to come into the public domain and make statements such as

but I disagree that God (spirituality) and the laws of nature don't mix.

You have to be able to prove that you understand the laws of nature. Which is, if i may add, impossible these days (due to the extreme amount of knowledge we have)

Those who are truly successful in their fields are not those who run to a book every time they encounter a problem.

This simply depends on what field they are in. A large part of science is using other peoples work (Hence the need for a degrees, if I'm a scientists and i am going to rely on someone elses work, i want to make damn sure he is a scientists too) instead of wasting your time coming up with knowledge that has already been found. you think every time an electrician wants to make a TV they go and find all the laws of electricity out by themselves? No, they go and read a book first so they don't end up wasting there time! it would take many life times for him to take your approach by solely depending on his own knowledge.

IMO there are 3 types of people in this kind of stuff - ones that think on their own and educate themselves (an active self-motivating seeker of knowledge)

I'm guessing this is you?

...ones that set up shop in any given field by memorizing books and lectures but have no real ideas of their own (most doctors IMO), and those that just rely on everyone else to come up with something that makes some sort of sense to them and they just go along with it (like lazy religious people).

Statements like this show how little you know about the way academic system. If by most doctors you mean most people with a Ph.D then you could NOT be more wrong. You can only achieve these degrees if you yourself contribute fresh thinking to the field that you are in, formulate your own theory etc. When a new theory gets established in science it has already gone through a heavy gauntlet of tests and questioning by people who have a deep understanding of the field that the idea is being established in. I'm not sure how you expect most laymen like us "to think for ourselves" in these cases.

As an example, here are some of Schrödinger equations of atomic orbitals.





and here is the boltzmann equation.




Ill be the first to state that i don't know wtf is going on, so ill keep my mouth shut and let the OTHER scientists decide if these theorems are true or false. I'm not going to be detective saman and try to come to a conclusion myself, because I DON'T KNOW WTF IS GOING ON!

If everybody needed a degree in order to formulate opinions we'd be a society of sheep broken in by those who write the text books...no better off than clergy trapped by the confinements of their religious texts.

Im saying everyone today who is going to formulate proper scientific opinions needs proper scientific degrees, that's all.

[DarkSpoon]

i think partying does make a good worker. all work and no play makes jack a dull boy. i mean even you are a good example of that. you work your ass off at work some times and get stressed out. then you jump on here and take it out on people. then you blow off some steam and come back refreshed. if you dont know to let go of the stress it will lead to an early grave. college helps you learn to deal with stress.


college is valuable to those who dont know what to do because there is this major called General Studies. its a degree plan that gives you a taste of every major the college offers. if you still dont know after that, you should prolly drop out and start out as a temp for a company or something. its reall the same thing as a person not knowing what they want to do out of high school if they arent going to go to school. they end up sitting at home doing nothing. its all about motivation and wanting to do something with your life, thats not really a college/no college argument.


i want to do what im already doing and have been doing for 6 years. by going to college and getting my Computer and Information Science degree i plan on moving on to a larger company with lots of experience and a degree under my belt.


you would be suprised at how many new editions of books aren't actually made to fix errors but are made to add new pictures and shuffle chapters around. the real winners in the college game is not the universities its the book sellers and manufacturers. my books cost almost as much as my tuition. if you cant believe data in a book what can you believe? i believe something that has been printed in a book that's been out for a while over some guy just telling me about a Java implementation of Linked Nodes. books are the only way to keep data. books are just as true as anything else on this planet.

[Spyder]

i want to do what im already doing and have been doing for 6 years. by going to college and getting my Computer and Information Science degree i plan on moving on to a larger company with lots of experience and a degree under my belt.

What specific job? IT/Sys Admin? DBA? NetOp Admin? etcetc

If this was simply a personal belief of yours i would not have bothered to point it out, however you, and people of your ilk, are trying to spread this "knowledge" in our school systems.

WTF are you talking about. I've done nothing to spread any sort of intelligent design "knowledge" in a school system much less multiple school systems. I don't even like intelligent design in it's most common form because that EXCLUDES evolution - which I believe to be true.

Just because I'm not athiest doesn't mean I automatically hate evolution and am a religious freak. I kind of find your attitude in this regard to be ironic considering the religion you've grown up with and I'm assuming your parents to be big into.

[DarkSpoon]

right now im 1 of a 2 man IT department at a small/medium sized chemical plant.

[MasterOfPuppets]

Dunno I just found this thread looking for something, and Spyder god damn if you don't make yourself look like a huge fucking idiot.

Anyone ever see this shit btw? Ben Stein is a faggot.

[Spyder]

Such strong opinionz by someone in your circumstancez

...and no, I haven't seen it. Kinda didn't want to...waste of time, I guess.